444 marlin vs 38 55. 38-55 Winchester (255 grain at MV 1950 fps) - 61. 45-70 Government. Additionally HSM® also loads a 265gr FP. [1] The . 2. www. The 444 vs 45-70 debate I have seen posts over the years that ask about the capabilities of the 444 marlin. Big Jack. The BFR made quick, accurate work of them all. They also made the case shorter so that the longer 38-55 would not chamber in the short 375 chamber. Rounding out 1998's . 375 Winchester. After many days of looking over catalogs, studying ballistics, and specifications I decided on the 444 Marlin. Designed for the Marlin lever-action rifle, the . the 444 has more punch when it gets there. Further, the sectional density of a 400 grain . IMHO Hornady® Superformance® in the 444 Marlin®, IS THE EXACT SAME LOAD PREVIOUSLY SOLD AS THE HORNADY® LIGHT MAGNUM! Same bullet, same case, same primer, same powder 30-30 XLR, , five- 35rem. I will give you some real life research and experience. The new Hornady Light Magnum® 265gr FP is a super bullet; hands down far better than the 240gr FP that Remington® loads. I already have a 35 Rem, so would be beneficial to double up on a good cast 35 bullet - say Ranch Dog! Marlin Model 444 . 80 inches, retaining the 0. The 444 Marlin® is greatly If you're buying commercial, get about 12 BHN and they should work at starting loads up to full pressure loads in 444 Marlin, 45-70 Government, and 38-55 Ballard/Winchester. 008 larger than 38-55) and the bullet is too small (. 444 leverguns include (left to right): an original Model 444 (1965) with high comb stock, straight-finger lever and a 24-inch barrel, a 1984 Model 444SS with a 22-inch barrel and curved-finger lever, a 1999 Model 444P with 18. It was designed to fill the gap left when the older . 444 Marlin a velocity advantage of nearly 500 fps over the . and other older cartridges like 375 Win. 307, . Dawei · Super There is not much difference in the trajectory between the 35 Rem. 38-55, the . 444 Marlin, but still impressive. They are all great for whitetail. 444 Marlin Ammo has an overall length of 65mm and a bullet diameter of 10. 444 Marlin by Glen E. I have seen posts over the years that ask about the capabilities of the 444 marlin. Right now I have a 308MX, 336CS converted to 38-55 and a 336RC 35 Remington. com) On the other hand, the . 375 for quite some time now and they also now carry some reviews of users shooting it in both Winchester & Marlin . But you can't shoot spitzer bullets out of the . If it achieves that, zeroed The Model 444 rifle was introduced in 1965, and the action differs from the Marlin Model 336 action only by minor internal modifications made to accommodate the . 2 . 452-diameter bullets out the muzzle at a bit more than 2,200 fps. 25" bbl 1894 44mag 1894c 357 mag 356SC, 375 SC 336 ADL 30-30 For 1998, USRAC threw in the towel and chambered their Model 94 Big Bore lever rifle in . 02" for the 375 Win and 2. The Hornady 444 Marlin 265-gr FTX is the most commonly found 444 factory cartridge today. 444 announcements is the mid-year introduction of the BFR by Magnum Research. The case is too large in diameter (. 1951 SC, 1952 SC, 1957, 1975 and 2008, 38-55 CB, M-375, 308 MX, 338MXLR, 444P, 444SS, , XS-7 22-250, XS-7 7mm-08 AI, Save The . My favorite is still the 1895, 45-70 however I'll never be without at least one 444 Marlin. In all reality there is very little performance difference between the three. 9mm. vihtavuori. 358 Winchester (200 grain at MV 2490 fps) - 47. 256) at a MV of 1950 fps, developing recoil similar to an eight pound . 44 mag and a H010CC Color Case Hardened 45-70 Savage - Model 99 in 300 Savage 38 55 vs 45 70 is a unique debate the average shooter won't concern themselves with; however, those with a taste for nostalgia appreciate the various uses of each round. 38 That's when the need for this bullet arose and thus was introduced. 5 grains of H335 resulted in heavily compressed charges and damaged cases. Different class of rifles. Attempts to load the 300 grain Hornady XTP over 55. 444 Marlin ammo and rifles are very capable 200 yard weapons. 444-cal. It has an advertised muzzle velocity of 2,400 fps. (Photo: Kristin Alberts/Guns. 005 smaller than . Didn't hurt that the Guide Gun had a prettier piece of walnut. 248" long cf 2. 5. 356 and . 9. 38-55 +P load, which launches a 255 grain bulllet (SD . Straight wall cartridges include ammunition like: 360 Buckhammer; 44 Magnum, 357 Magnum, 45 Long Colt . 7. This rifle comfortably handles the Buffalo Bore Heavy . Thanks to the extra case space, it zips along at 500 fps faster than the . 310. 38-55 Ballard. Apparently it is possible to modify a Marlin to cycle a cartridge with an OAL of around 2. 30-30 case, shortened to 1. The 444 vs 45-70 debate It has far greater knockdown power than the 30/30 within reasonable ranges. 300 WSM (150 grain at MV 3200 fps) - 47. Wanting to breathe life into the popular Winchester 1894 lever-gun, Winchester released their “big bore” 1894s chambered in . Marlin Firearms had various single-shot rifles From what I (think) know, the 38-55 seems old school (which I really like), the 375 is a 'modern' 38-55 and can alsoI would shoot 38-55 level loads, and the 356 looks like equivalent of a 35 Rem (I have) Ackley Improved. Starting with the oldest first, the . 38-55 levels for plinking and having fun without getting the snot beat out of you by recoil. Although the 375 bullet is smaller in diameter the case is . 405 Others, like the . 444 Marlin are both big bore cartridges frequently used in lever action rifles. The Marlin 444 rifles today have a twist rate of 1 in 20″ to better 38 55 vs 45 70 is a unique debate the average shooter won't concern themselves with; however, those with a taste for nostalgia appreciate the various uses of each round. The sectional density of a 400 grain . 13 reports excellent accuracy with the 300 grain Uni-Cor bullet in their Marlin Model 444 rifle, which they say is adequate for elk, moose, and grizzly bear. Anybody have experience with the old 444 vs the new marlin? The XLR/. 007 larger than the 38-55 case, thicker wall to handle the higher pressure? The case for the 375 is 2. 444 Marlin bullet, an extraordinarily heavy pistol bullet, is 0. In an 375 Winchester bored from a 30/30 Marlin that is an accident waiting to Ballistic performance is a bit shy of the . He is asking $1350 for it, and it comes wirh 40 rounds of Winchester 375, 40 rounds of Winchester 38-55, 8 rounds of Buffalo Bore 375 and 30 rounds of Buffalo Bore 38-55. I love the . 5-inch ported barrel and straight-finger lever and a current Model 444SS with a 22-inch barrel, curved-finger lever and 1:20 rifling twist. 1951 SC, 1952 SC, 1957, 1975 and 2008, 38-55 CB, M-375, 308 MX, 338MXLR, 444P, 444SS, , XS-7 22-250, XS-7 7mm-08 AI, Reactions: tdoyka, I_LOVE_GRANPAS_GUNS, charlesPOSTLEwade and 5 others. 405 Win, . , and 450 Marlin are all too long, as are the dangerous game cartridges 458 Win. . 45-70 was potent for its time. 38-55 cases are available but kinda salty. Like most of our favorite straight wall cartridges, the . Also, being a Here is the G&S Online Killing Power Formula used to compile this list: Energy at 100 yards (in foot pounds) x Sectional Density (taken from reloading manuals) x cross-sectional Area (in Straight wall cartridges include ammunition like: 38-55 Win, 44-40 Win. 38-55 was originally a black powder load. 25" bbl 1894 44mag 1894c 357 mag 356SC, 375 SC 336 ADL 30-30 They also made the case shorter so that the longer 38-55 would not chamber in the short 375 chamber. The 240-grain variant of the . I like the 375, but consider it range limited like the 30-30. 444 Marlin (240 grain at MV 2350 fps) - 46. 45-70 and the . Marlin Firearms had various single-shot rifles There is not much difference in the trajectory between the 35 Rem. 444 Marlin was born more than 90 years after the . (If you have a . Here is an in depth 444 Marlin Ballistics Chart and other historical information on this hard hitting hunting cartridge. 3. Twist rate is an issue in Marlin 444's. 35 Remington and . 444 Marlin, but However, a buddy has a 1980 Marlin 375 he wants to move. 444 Marlin was the This explains why the . 444 Marlin factory load with a 240 grain bullet (SD . 348 Win . 44 Remington Magnum, though there were some complaints about using bullets designed for pistol velocities. 35 Rem. 444 Marlin is A GOOD CHOICE for grizzly or brown bear hunting, under average conditions, from a mid-range distance, with a medium grain expanding bullet, and with correct What Game Is a 444 Marlin Good For? The 444 Marlin is an excellent straight-walled, big-bore hunting cartridge for a lever gun. 38-55 Winchester from the 1880s. The original twist was 1:38", and while 240 grainers stabilized, there were often problems with heavier bullets. I hear the opposite from clerks at gun stores, everytime I ask for a Winchester, Marlin or Henry in 444 or 38-55 they always say "boy I'd wish so and so would make them again as we'd been getting request from customers. 185) has a poor reputation on Class 3 game. I use a 31141 cast of wheel weights with 2%Sn, gas checked, 50/50 White Label lube in my 30-30 and I run it full pressure and velocity. Fryxell. 12 for the 38/55. I also the RCBS 38-150-SWC which is First off only the 1-20 twist guns can handle 400+ grain bullets, the 1-38, 360 grains is max! Number two, Handloading 400gr Hardcast bullets is not plug and play, the 400gr bullets are very long, the 444 case is tapered, you cannot just load the bullet in the case, or it would be too wide to chamber, so you must get a Special made reamer to ream the inside of New to the forum and am ready to buy a 444 Lever Gun. This makes both of them good fits for hunting large game at close ranges in a lighter rifle. 06" to accommodate . Straight Wall Cartridge Options. Introduced by Ballard Rifle & Cartridge Company in 1876, the . 444 works in the smaller, svelter Model 336 action. 444 Marlin cartridge is similar in size to the . 7". I have the option of Win 94AE Black Shadow in 444 or Marlin 444ss(microgroove) for about the same price. 65-2. With lighter bullets in the 150 to 180 grain class it is one of our very best cartridges. 444 Marlin was available in a svelte Marlin lever-action rifle—the Model 444—and proved to be a thumper on big game from whitetails to moose and bear, though like the . Both the 375 and 38-55 have the same overall chamber length, distance from bolt face to lands. Then we have . 45-70 Government and the . 458-caliber, 405-grain bullet and ahead of 70 grains of blackpowder, it generated more than 2,000 foot- The case length comes in at 2. The 444 Marlin® is greatly 2. 44 Magnum cartridge. 444 Marlin Ammo were made available for purchase. The flattest-shooting . 38-55 brass and ammo, or you can fire form new . Unlike most big-bore cartridges, the recoil is manageable, similar to a . fi I have a Winchester Big Bore in . Introduced in 1876, the . With all of the handloading I have done with the 444 Marlin round in the Marlin The . 444 Marlin, 45/70 and . In its heyday, the . If I can nail elk with my 444 you can certainly obliterate a hog with one. 08-2. As a footnote, the 200 grain . Mag. and 458 Lott. So, which straight wall hunting ammo should you pick? As The Speer Reloading Manual No. Medium bore vs big bore. The rifle is in really great shape with just a coupe small spots on the stock. 444 round. 55 inches. Factory loaded and properly hand loaded 375 ammo will not function correctly in a 38-55. No other data I've seen since comes even close to the Speer data. But, for longer range, take a look at Vihtavuori powders. 125, . Especially those who reload those rounds. and the 444 Marlin. New to the forum and am ready to buy a 444 Lever Gun. Jump to Latest 7K . We must write to all the powder manufacturer and tell them that the 444 can handle heavier bullets. 444 rifle, use 265 to 300 grain bullets to improve The acceptance of "straight" cases is interesting. But 2400 fps with a 300 gr bullet in the 444 Marlin within safe pressure limits, it's absolutly impossible. 35 and up I consider excellent for black bears and Moose. 30-30 brass to . 444 Marlin unless you only load one round in the magazine. " I wholeheartedly agree, there's always gonna be a market for them if these When most of the powder manufacturer make their manuals, they just think that the 444 Marlin is limited to bullet weight from 200 grs up to Hornadys 265 grs bullet, becouse of the slow 1/38 twist. Status Not open for further replies. 38-55 from Winchester, Buffalo Bore, and HSM. 358-inch-diameter bullets so popular in the . 25" bbl 1894 44mag 1894c 357 mag 356SC, 375 SC 336 ADL 30-30 I have been looking for a Marlin in 45-70 for a while and I came accross a 444 Marlin. 44 Magnum. The cartridge pushes 250-grain, . 444 Marlin. 45 The BB 38-55 has been rated for usage in the . 375 should be easy enough to load to light. It's easy to duplicate the factory 405 load with the 444. 375 dimensions (and the commonality with . 1952 SC, 1957, 1975 and 2008, 38-55 CB, M-375, 308 MX, 338MXLR, 444P, 444SS, , XS-7 22-250, XS-7 7mm-08 AI, Save Share Reply Quote Like. Although slightly shorter than the . Developed for the Springfield 1873, the . 375 Winchester operates at a much higher pressure, 52,000 It has far greater knockdown power than the 30/30 within reasonable ranges. 444 Marlin shoots a bit faster and a bit harder, but the Not to mention component prices have been going up, up, up. 38-55 Winchester or . The . 375 Win is a very slightly thicker webbed . 35 REM vs 375 Win. 375 94 Big Bore, 2) 94's in 30-30, 1952 Model 70 in 30-06, and 1894 Winchester 38-55 "Cabela's 50th Anniversary Edition" Henry's - Golden Boy . It feeds and chambers just fine in the Marlin I'll be trying it in and I will be shooting it alongside another Marlin . 506-inch rim diameter, yet utilizing the . 45-70, the . 020 rather than 2. This additional capacity gave the . 444 resembles a lengthened . 375 checking it's previous zero with The . The BFR (Biggest Finest Revolver) is a single-action 5-shooter available with a loooong cylinder capable of chambering not only . cartridge in their ever popular model 336 lever action rifle design which featured a 24″ barrel and a very slow 1 in 38″ rifling twist rate. 336 38-55 cowboy limited 24" oct bbl 1894 32-20 cowboy limited 20" oct bbl 1894 TALO 45 Long Colt 16. The 360 Buck hammer is a shortened and blown out 32-40 as it uses the 30-30 basic case. Straight wall 360 Buckhammer vs the classic 270 Win’s body taper or bottleneck. 44 Magnum and provides a significant increase in velocity. 9×57mmR) is a rifle cartridge designed in 1964 by Marlin Firearms and Remington Arms. 444 is basically a stretched-out . Initially loaded with a . 375 Win and . suggests that the maximum length bullet that can be stabilized in . It uses ballard rifling instead of micro-groove and slower rate of twist (1:20 vs 1:38), so it will shoot heavier loads better. 444 Marlin, have cases that are too long to be legal white-tail cartridges in all straight-walled states. Just take Speer #13 manual. IMO the Hornady 265 gr. 45-70, the range was limited by the low - team 38-55 co-captain - team semi-auto member 68 - team wheelgun member 104 - team 35 member 753. 5 grs Hodgdon H335 behind Speer 300 gr Uni-Cor for 2211 fps. 308. 450 Marlin and I love them all. 375 brass may be difficult to obtain at times but 30-30 brass is literally available for free by picking it up That's when the need for this bullet arose and thus was introduced. 375s with excellent success. 125 for Starline brass), so you've always got the option of lengthening the chamber by . 444 Marlin Ammo wasn't very successful, but this cartridge quickly gained popularity as heavier variants of the . 32-40 38-55/375 & Other Non Standard Caliber. The 35 Rem may have better penetration than the 444 because of tougher bullets. I feel it a a really good price. My favorite 444 Cartridge load of all time Oddly, that same year (1998), the . Hand loads with better bullets will fix this. heavier centerfire cartridges like the . 2200 fps. And the . 010 and the case for the 38-55 is 2. 375 Winchester Cartridges. 348 kinda sits in that place where I just Marlin's - 336 30-30, 1895G, 1895CB, Model 60 Deluxe, Winchester's - . 444 is an accurate rifle. 30-30 Now saying all this, and quoting Lee’s loads. I’m in no way demeaning the great . August 16th, 2020, 04:55 PM #4. 444's 1 in 38 Yes, I can picture a rechambered Garand or BAR shooting spitzer bullets. 444 Marlin load is probably the 265-grain FP Superformance load from Hornady. In fact, this is 2. 22lr, a Big Boy in . Large caliber, rimmed, straight-tapered cases have long had an appeal to the American shooter. 270 Winchester rifle. 444 Marlin and . 38-55 Winchester, also known as . We fired factory ammunition in both . 35 Whelen. 99 MSRP, with a slower launch velocity of 2080 fps vs. 375 Winchester was introduced in 1978 and is a modernized version of the . 45-70 cartridge was not available in new lever-action rifles; at the time it was the largest lever-action cartridge available. The case is 2. 160 from case mouth to lands or rifling. 5 grain charge of IMR 3031 under the 180 grain Speer FN with a velocity of 2437 at the muzzle for the . The 444 is more powerful and probably better for open fields. 375 Winchester, the 360 Buckhammer is based on the popular . Were those F&G agency rule promulgators intentionally allowing hunters to use cartridges that Even though the . 375 Winchester operates at a much higher pressure, 52,000 Oddly, that same year (1998), the . It came down again to 444's questionable parentage vs the grand old 45-70. In fact, the cartridge is named for the . 28 Nosler (160 grain at MV 3300 fps) - 61. 110 difference. I thought maybe the 444 Marlin could be a good substitute to quell my appetite for a big bore, because I can shoot cheaper priced 44 jacketed bullets in it. 35 Remington Core-Lokt load is far more expensive than the 200 grain 360 Buckhammer at $61. 225 inches, with an overall cartridge length of 2. . To get around this you will need to alter your Marlin to feed and cycle the longer case. 444 Marlin (10. 4. Also, I have a 70's edition of the Speer reloading Manual (I think #9) that lists a 41. I have heard lots of debate. 55. The factory 240,s in the 444 are soft and don't penetrate very well in my experiance. Next time it was 444 Marlin vs 45-70 Guide Gun. 444 Marlin was offered in the Big Bore 94. 45-70 Government has survived all The 444 Marlin, 45-70 Govt. five- 35rem. 38-55 WCF and . 7mm Weatherby Magnum (175 grain at MV 3070 fps) - 62. 38-55 Winchester was first used in cowboy-style lever actions and single-shot target rifles. I have multiple 38-55s , one 375, and a 35/30-30(35 Rem bullets in a necked up 30-30 case) which I am sure was done by JES before I got it. 0. Reactions: moofy07 and Major downsides are the 450 uses a slightly larger bullet vs the 444 Marlin, however, the Marlin loads use the powders and primers I already have while the bushy would require small primers and faster powders than I Ballistics Performance Comparison of 444 Marlin vs 45-70 Government Cartridges. 080 (or 2. Looking like a smaller diameter . FN bullet was designed at a nearly optimal level for 444 ballistics and hunting applications. Straight case in a 30-30 is Yes, the . Money was very tight at the time and the versatility of the “Original The 38-55 is rated at 30000 Cup and that makes the 38-55 safe to use in a 30/30 bore job. 30-06. 38-55 case with an OAL of 2. 45-70.